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Post by Octagon on Oct 7, 2023 9:31:13 GMT -6
Because writing seems to have devolved, no longer having the more complex sentence structures it once did, it appears that readers no longer want their intellect challenged. I don’t mean to insult writers of simple prose, nor do I mean to insult readers of that kind of prose, but evidently, prose that is written these days must be easy to digest, there being now less challenge for the intellect.
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Post by ScintillaMyntan on Oct 7, 2023 10:37:19 GMT -6
I love older prose styles. I think the longer or more complex sentences have a beauty that is lost these days, even in fancier rhetoric such as politicians' speeches.
I think as with many choices in writing, there's a place for both. Linguists talk about 'style-shifting'; we naturally adjust our speaking style based on the situation and whom we're talking with. Some rhetoric would benefit from more archaic, complex structures, and so would prose trying to achieve a more thoughtful, profound, or reflective character. Other types of writing benefit from plainer style.
Personally, I had a phase when I wanted to write all my stories like I was from the 19th century. That was when I was reading a lot of 19th-century literature in university and really liked the way it sounded. But people complained it felt out of place in present-day stories or about characters who wouldn't write that way. Plus, I hardly got any writing done because I was so worried about the prose itself.
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Post by RAVENEYE on Oct 7, 2023 12:02:52 GMT -6
I was saddened to learn that vocabulary, grammar, etc. are no longer being taught in far too many schools, both in the U.S. and abroad. England, being one of them. The land of Shakespeare, no longer teaching the ins and outs of the English language? Whaaaat? So it's being made quite clear in multiple places that language is NOT being held to the same standards it once was, nor is it regarded as important for basic communication with fellow human beings. Which blows my mind. So, yeah, I think there's going to be more places for fiction written in everyday common-practice language, easy to read, but also short-lived in terms of current fads being spoken/used. It breaks my heart, honestly. Language is such a powerful tool and a beautiful artform when wielded with skill. -------------- That said, yeah, I think there's a place for high formal language AND "simpler" prose in fiction. Just because a story is written in everyday simple language doesn't mean that story is simplistic and stupid. It still takes skill with the writing craft to tell ANY story well, regardless of style employed, with each word and description chosen with great care. For example: try giving Hemingway's The Sun Also Rises a shot and see if you can figure out the symbolism and themes woven into that simple 1920s language. He wrote that story almost exactly 100 years ago (mind blown yet again), and simple language was the thing (breaking away from that convoluted/purple 19th Century style), even if complex themes were still involved. Agreed that a story that takes place in modern day America would sound RIDICULOUS if written in a style that was common in the 19th Century. Or even in the early part of the 20th. Just like stories set in the 19th Century sound RIDICULOUS if written in a style we use in our speech today. *cough*LydiaKang*cough*  So it depends on the story and the audience, just like always. |
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Post by Alatariel on Oct 7, 2023 14:59:35 GMT -6
Because writing seems to have devolved, no longer having the more complex sentence structures it once did, it appears that readers no longer want their intellect challenged. I don’t mean to insult writers of simple prose, nor do I mean to insult readers of that kind of prose, but evidently, prose that is written these days must be easy to digest, there being now less challenge for the intellect. Have you read This is How You Lose the Time War? Read that and tell me prose isn't as complex as it once was because that novella is utter poetry. I think there are many beautifully written works of modern fiction out there. Complex prose, stunning imagery, in-depth analysis of the human condition. You just have to branch out and read more (not you specifically, readers in general), find the award winners, find the books other authors gush over, try different genres. Patrick Rothfuss. V.E Schwab. N.K Jemison. Mervyn Peake. Kai Ashante Wilson. AND VERY MUCH Susanna Clarke. |
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Post by havekrillwhaletravel on Oct 10, 2023 5:37:42 GMT -6
Hmm, I wouldn't agree that modern prose is less challenging to read. This is similar to a lot of comments that I come across online, claiming how Hemingway and Carver continue to exert such an outsize influence on the modern English lit scene that it pushes new writers towards more minimal and simplistic prose. But:
1. Simpler sentences and a more vernacular/plain prose style does not indicate a lack of complexity. I'm rereading Carver's collection What We Talk About When We Talk About Love, and I'm absolutely floored. His prose style may be simple, but there's such depth and complexity in each of his stories. Going for more modern examples, Saunders' Lincoln in the Bardo and Ali Smith's How to Be Both (if I remember correctly) both employ vernacular and simpler prose styles, but that doesn't stop them from experimenting with form, from delving into complex topics and themes.
2. How challenging a prose style is is incredibly subjective. How do you even begin to quantify/qualify the complexity of prose?
Whatever metric you use ultimately falls down to personal preference. I personally feel Kerouac's rambling, run-on prose (On the Road was published in 1957); stream-of-consciousness writing (Joyce's A Portrait of the Artist ... came out in the 20s) ; David Foster Wallace's prose to be much more challenging (for me, at least) than the average 18th/19th century novel (say, Dickens or Austen). So, I personally don't feel that the prose has gotten any easier or more difficult to read.
3. Even if it is true that there is a trend in modern writing towards simpler and less complex prose, it ultimately doesn't matter. I feel that literature (and any modern artform) has gotten so decentralized and abundant that there really is something for everyone out there. I agree with Ala that there is plenty of gorgeous prose out there.
My personal taste tends towards more purple prose, and these are modern authors/books I think exemplify purple prose: Marilyn Robinson's Housekeeping (1980); Ondaatje's The English Patient (1992); Annie Dillard (Pilgrim ... came out in 1974); Salman Rushdie. For contemporary writing, I'd include Sarah Baume; Claire-Louise Bennett's Pond (2015); Eimear McBride's A Girl is a Half-Formed Thing (2013).
There's so much writing being produced that you are going to find what you consider challenging, complex prose if you keep digging.
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Post by saintofm on Oct 11, 2023 17:00:11 GMT -6
Language evolves. What was once a swear word back in the day is now PC as you can get and what is a Swear Word Now was clean for the whole family back in the day (pisseth in the King James Bible for instance). Its the nature of the beast. So what would have been common or proper 100, 200, or even 300 years ago may be a little off-putting now.
At the same time I wonder how much of it was expected to be at its best foot forward in grammar. When Mark Twain did Huckleberry Finn, one of the early complaints was the sloppy writing. however, he did this on purpose as it was a first-person point of view from a child that spoke like the common folk at the time. Had He written a character in modern day California, chances are he have Hella in there.
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You add them to your profile as you do them around the forum.
