|
|
Post by ScintillaMyntan on May 9, 2021 12:15:09 GMT -6
Sometimes theme is just implicit in the narrative without the writer having to work for it. Even if you're writing some pulpy adventure about fighting beasts in the woods, you've got a man versus nature theme going. Depending what you do, it might end up communicating something more specific, maybe taking a position on the role of man in nature or the relationship between nature and civilization.
Other times we write with a clearer message we want to convey. Do you write with a message in mind? How do you pull that off without being preachy or unrealistic?
Here's an example: When I was reading literary criticism of Njal's Saga, one thing the critic said was that the story does a really good job of gracefully conveying that peace can be better than honor and vengeance. The main character embodies that value, but he's not some over-idealized hero. He's moderate about it, even helping his friend get a revenge kill early in the story, and he is shown as becoming more peace-driven as his society also changes in that direction. So he's a good guy, yet realistically flawed and a product of his society.
I think the way you end a story has a lot to do with whether your message comes across too heavily. Back to the Njal's Saga example, the critic points out that the story depicts vengeance as leading to tragedy — but instead of ending with a tragedy caused by vengeance, it actually ends with an act of vengeance that wraps things up and is portrayed as a good thing. So the reader is left with "vengeance happens sometimes and can cause bad things' rather than a preachy "seek vengeance and you'll bring down something terrible; The End!" It's the difference between a children's story where the kid disobeys the parents and this gets them eaten by a monster in the end, and one where the kid goes about accomplishing a goal and ends up doing so, after a couple of setbacks caused by them disobeying their parents. If that makes sense.
Or maybe we try to watch what we 'say' lest we say something we don't mean. Have you ever been in that situation? Suppose you're writing a story about warm, rational humans fighting against cold, instinct-driven beasts, but then you stop and realize you don't want to give the impression that humans are separate from nature or that nature is totally evil. What do you do then? I might soften it by having the characters still gain something from their trip to the wilderness, or maybe the heroes discover during the fight that they're not so different from animals themselves.
|
|
Jib
Spark
Posts: 64
Preferred Pronouns: she/her or they/them
|
Post by Jib on May 9, 2021 19:12:04 GMT -6
Aww, this is actually a favorite subject of mine whenever I watch/consume media... like, trying to see what the writer might have intended as the bigger picture / deeper meaning. It can be really hard, though, since many stories can be interpreted in different ways. Sometimes what the author may have intended is not what the audience/readership takes away from it.
In my own experience, I think I tend to just focus more on the writing -at first-. It's only later during revisions that I might start thinking about the major themes. Often it's stuff that I'm dealing with or processing in my own life that's coming out in the writing.
On a side note... I really love it when authors manage to stuff little "nuggets of wisdom" into their writing. Sometimes it can come across as preachy, I guess, but I love it when it's well done. I find it to be skillfully done when it's succinct and relevant. It's a section where the author's voice comes into it and it's often super helpful to put things into context. I dunno, maybe I'm just unique in absolutely loving that sort of thing, but I find it very fun when I see it.
But for your other points, I think your instincts sound good. If you're writing thematically, then it might be good to take a peek at what your writing might say. Might be a good spot to get feedback from other people, too. You could ask them what they think the deeper meanings might be, and see if it lines up more or less with what you were going for.
Hope that helps!
|
|
|
|
Post by RAVENEYE on May 11, 2021 9:26:43 GMT -6
Or maybe we try to watch what we 'say' lest we say something we don't mean. Have you ever been in that situation? Suppose you're writing a story about warm, rational humans fighting against cold, instinct-driven beasts, but then you stop and realize you don't want to give the impression that humans are separate from nature or that nature is totally evil. What do you do then? I might soften it by having the characters still gain something from their trip to the wilderness, or maybe the heroes discover during the fight that they're not so different from animals themselves. Gosh, I'm struggling with this right now. The novel I'm currently writing focuses on the theme of "the wound." Whatever that may be, we've all been dealt wounds and we must learn to cope with them, heal or drown. The example in this story is that the main character was brutalized by a cousin as a child, and so in her adult life she's distrustful of men. The problem I'm running into through her distrust is that early on I worry that the content will convey the message "All men are brutes," and that's not what I want to convey at all. I've also run into an issue because the story is set in the Victorian era among upper middle class people, in which women were trained to be dependent on men, and so I fear that my character's early chapters will convey the message "Women should rely on men." My MC grows to become independent and brave, but early on she's a terrified mess. So will readers hang around to see her shift? I think the non-linear structure will help with this. Readers will be able to see how she behaves "now" and contrast that with how she was "then" as chapters alternate between past and present. Fingers crossed. It will certainly be challenging to walk the line of realistic trauma reactions and realistic historical mindsets without alienating modern readers. Or outright pissing them off. |
|
|
|
Post by Alatariel on May 11, 2021 13:01:49 GMT -6
I so back and forth with this but thinking back on my writing and the project I'm currently trying to finish I realized that I don't consciously go into writing with a message in mind. I craft characters who have to make active choices and sometimes they choose wrong. And I like to create works with inherent conflict built into it. When Raveneye edited my novel draft, she did pick out two themes that I should try to be more consistent with in the following drafts. So this time around, rewriting the whole thing, I have consciously chosen certain words or scenarios to hone those themes. One isn't a message (it's the theme of "time", kind of the concept of past/present/future all influencing one another), but the other is a message (oppression, racial politics, realizing what they've been told is propaganda and learning how to deconstruct a belief system in order to find truth). I don't really focus on it, but I do tailor big events in my book to highlight the unfairness of the world I created. One of my MCs goes through a huge crisis of knowledge, everything he's been told has been a lie and it's rough to do a mental 180 while also dealing with life or death situations. My other MC is dealing with other internal things, but her story focuses more on the time aspect of my book. So without someone else reading my book, I wouldn't have known that these themes or messages were coming through. It's not a bad thing to have a message, but as Scintilla pointed out you don't want to hammer it into the reader or become preachy. I like to let actions and character choices speak for me, rather than writing four pages of political ranting.  I also like Jib's comment about little nuggets of wisdom. Love it. I try to let my characters have small moments of discovery and small personal epiphanies. That way their growth seems natural and gradual. |
|
|
|
Post by RAVENEYE on May 12, 2021 14:01:35 GMT -6
I so back and forth with this but thinking back on my writing and the project I'm currently trying to finish I realized that I don't consciously go into writing with a message in mind. I craft characters who have to make active choices and sometimes they choose wrong. And I like to create works with inherent conflict built into it. When Raveneye edited my novel draft, she did pick out two themes that I should try to be more consistent with in the following drafts. So this time around, rewriting the whole thing, I have consciously chosen certain words or scenarios to hone those themes. One isn't a message (it's the theme of "time", kind of the concept of past/present/future all influencing one another), but the other is a message (oppression, racial politics, realizing what they've been told is propaganda and learning how to deconstruct a belief system in order to find truth). I don't really focus on it, but I do tailor big events in my book to highlight the unfairness of the world I created. One of my MCs goes through a huge crisis of knowledge, everything he's been told has been a lie and it's rough to do a mental 180 while also dealing with life or death situations. My other MC is dealing with other internal things, but her story focuses more on the time aspect of my book. So without someone else reading my book, I wouldn't have known that these themes or messages were coming through. It's not a bad thing to have a message, but as Scintilla pointed out you don't want to hammer it into the reader or become preachy. I like to let actions and character choices speak for me, rather than writing four pages of political ranting.  I also like Jib's comment about little nuggets of wisdom. Love it. I try to let my characters have small moments of discovery and small personal epiphanies. That way their growth seems natural and gradual. Good point here. This is the first novel I've purposefully started with a theme in mind. Most of the time I realize "what the story is really about" after I start writing or even after I finish the first draft. No shame in that, not at all. It's beautiful when our characters/scenarios have something to say that we didn't consciously intend. |
|
|
|
Post by HDSimplicityy on May 18, 2021 23:02:26 GMT -6
I normally do not. The theme or themes come after a draft or two, or more. That happened with a long short fantasy story I wrote a few short years ago, my Tomb Raider fanfiction, and I am sure other stories later. For my book, I do have one or more themes purposeful for the story. Well, at least I believe I do. Siblings are important, so treat yours well and if you mess up, learn to get past it, perhaps. Science benefits anyone, not just the people who created it and the people who they want it to benefit, to allow our hearts open to a change from anger to admittance and seeing where to right your wrong. Oops... those are what I am trying to write about and I don't wanna spoil it anymore! Hah. (I did that on purpose). When you are hitting a stride, your theme will surface more easily, more elegant, perhaps, than making it in an unnatural way. Example: for my book, one of my inspirations is the Bible, some theological parts of it. As it is the cornerstone of my life, I hope to use it for the good of others through my book. It will be freaking hard, but a ton of fun! Raveneye mentioned to not be overly preachy. It leads to turn-off, cringy writing, and a failure to do what I hope to accomplish. So, its about being accurate as well as making it fun and not making the story or the themes too blatant to it buries the rest of it.
So you can write with a theme in mind, but it may not come as strong or natural as starting with an idea that the theme grows from.
|
|
