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Post by Alatariel on May 3, 2021 12:03:06 GMT -6
Let's be honest, we all have our writing bad habits, right? Sometimes we don't even know what they are until someone else points them out.
Here are the ones I've noticed over the years that are MY bad habits:
1) Use of passive voice. I tend to fall back into a wistful way of writing, as if I'm distancing myself from the character's direct POV.
2) Inserting my own "author voice" into the writing. Like saying "He knew he shouldn't, but he did it anyway." That's me speaking, it's not my character using their own perspective to bring us into the story. Doh.
3) Inserting unnecessary words EVERYWHERE. Sometimes my adverb use can be too much. And during the editing process I find myself eliminating a ton of "thats" and "hads" and "weres" and other words that add nothing and interrupt the flow.
4) I don't trust my reader enough to not over explain. Plus, repetition. Too much. I need to trust my readers more.
5) State how my characters are feeling by saying "she felt..." I'm getting better at this one. Instead, describe the feeling and any physical responses instead of directly stating how she felt. This goes hand in hand with trusting my readers to infer the meaning correctly based on context. And this isn't just for emotional responses but for things literally felt, like a cold breeze. Instead of writing "she felt a cold breeze brush against her cheek" I can edit it down to "A cold breeze brushed across her cheek." It puts the reader directly into her POV instead of inserting my author voice and distancing myself from the writing.
So...what are your bad habits? How have you learned from them?
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Post by Caulder Melhaire on May 3, 2021 15:51:48 GMT -6
1) Semi-colons.  I've had a few people now point out that I litter them across the page like pigeon droppings in a local park. I never notice it until someone points it out and then my brain clocks it as weird and unruly.
2) Forgetting that the reader is just that: the reader. They don't have the insight that I do into the story. There's a difference between letting them figure things out for themselves and flat-out never dropping enough breadcrumbs for them to do so, and I always end up on the wrong side of it. I think this falls under my issues with pacing because I'm trying to rush the story.
3) Gonna pile onto the unnecessary words one here, because I definitely do the same. Especially with "that." The 100 word challenges have been a fantastic exercise in editing out and rephrasing those extra words that don't add anything to the story.
4) Dialogue tags. I went from saying "he/she/they said" after every line of dialogue to sometimes not using tags at all for an extended portion of text. Or I just use some weird descriptive text in place of every dialogue tag and it just makes it bloated and confusing. Had to reteach myself that sometimes "said" is good enough.
5) Over-detailing characters. This one I think Raven pointed out in my second chapter, that I had inadvertently set up the readers' expectations for a character to be important because I had done too much description of them. Never really thought about it before, but in terms of POV, yeah - it absolutely makes sense that we would tend to focus on what our MC focuses on, right? (Also gives me ideas for a clever way of setting up a bait and switch!)
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Post by Alatariel on May 3, 2021 18:10:26 GMT -6
1) Semi-colons. I've had a few people now point out that I litter them across the page like pigeon droppings in a local park. I never notice it until someone points it out and then my brain clocks it as weird and unruly.
Okay this made me snort-laugh while drinking so bravo to you.  I might have been one of the people to point out the semi-colons. It's such a pet peeve of mine BUT sometimes they are allowed and even appropriate. But I swear, I twitch every time I see one. I used one recently in my own work and almost died of a heart attack.
2) Forgetting that the reader is just that: the reader. They don't have the insight that I do into the story. There's a difference between letting them figure things out for themselves and flat-out never dropping enough breadcrumbs for them to do so, and I always end up on the wrong side of it. I think this falls under my issues with pacing because I'm trying to rush the story.
I did this with my first draft! I thought my clues were enough and I was so proud of my foreshadowing. Turns out NO ONE caught on to ANY of the clues. That's not the readers problem when it happens to more than one person...let alone five. So I'm trying to walk the line between being too sparse and hitting my readers over the head with a bat. It's hard.
3) Gonna pile onto the unnecessary words one here, because I definitely do the same. Especially with "that." The 100 word challenges have been a fantastic exercise in editing out and rephrasing those extra words that don't add anything to the story.
4) Dialogue tags. I went from saying "he/she/they said" after every line of dialogue to sometimes not using tags at all for an extended portion of text. Or I just use some weird descriptive text in place of every dialogue tag and it just makes it bloated and confusing. Had to reteach myself that sometimes "said" is good enough.
I blame all those writing advice articles! They always make me question everything I've ever known about writing. "Don't use any dialogue tag besides said" or "Don't use action as dialogue tags" or "a good trick is to use creative dialogue tags and/or action!" Ahhhhhhh!
5) Over-detailing characters. This one I think Raven pointed out in my second chapter, that I had inadvertently set up the readers' expectations for a character to be important because I had done too much description of them. Never really thought about it before, but in terms of POV, yeah - it absolutely makes sense that we would tend to focus on what our MC focuses on, right? (Also gives me ideas for a clever way of setting up a bait and switch!)YES! Raveneye pointed this out in my draft, too. It's hard because I want to give at least some description of the characters, but if they're minor I'll give them one or two unique characteristics but besides that....I've edited many out. The hard part is...some characters will eventually become important in later books, but in the first book they have very minor roles. So yes they are important...but not yet. How do I handle that?! |
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Post by RAVENEYE on May 4, 2021 12:35:37 GMT -6
Gulp. You guys can probably pinpoint my bad habits better than I can. A couple I can think of without stressing over it too much are: 1. Rushing through transitions. I HATE writing these connectors. So in early drafts, I'm like "that's good enough" and move on. Later, when I come back to read it, I'm like "Whaaat? How does that logic even work???" Strikethrough, delete, start over. Editing them is just as icky. I'll spend an hour just figuring out how to tie two scenes together. 2. Confession... I LOVE purple prose. I could wax poetic on the smallest side details ever. This amounts to too many adjectives, adverbs, flowery phrasings. It's especially tempting when writing about a Victorian setting and trying to capture an authentic Victorian voice. (Thanks Bronte sisters) So I have to get disciplined and cut cut cut. I think this is one reason I miss this issue when I'm critting the work of others. Some excess is obvious, but usually I really am enjoying the richness of the detail. 3. Recently, I've gotten in a terrible habit of voicing all internal monologue as questions. I started noticing that entire paragraphs would be made up of nothing BUT questions.  Overboard, ya think? Doh. I mean, how confused and/or uninformed does my character need to be already? False conflict. False tension. Easy cop-out. |
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Post by Caulder Melhaire on May 5, 2021 16:19:15 GMT -6
Gulp. You guys can probably pinpoint my bad habits better than I can. A couple I can think of without stressing over it too much are: 1. Rushing through transitions. I HATE writing these connectors. So in early drafts, I'm like "that's good enough" and move on. Later, when I come back to read it, I'm like "Whaaat? How does that logic even work???" Strikethrough, delete, start over. Editing them is just as icky. I'll spend an hour just figuring out how to tie two scenes together. 2. Confession... I LOVE purple prose. I could wax poetic on the smallest side details ever. This amounts to too many adjectives, adverbs, flowery phrasings. It's especially tempting when writing about a Victorian setting and trying to capture an authentic Victorian voice. (Thanks Bronte sisters) So I have to get disciplined and cut cut cut. I think this is one reason I miss this issue when I'm critting the work of others. Some excess is obvious, but usually I really am enjoying the richness of the detail. 3. Recently, I've gotten in a terrible habit of voicing all internal monologue as questions. I started noticing that entire paragraphs would be made up of nothing BUT questions.  Overboard, ya think? Doh. I mean, how confused and/or uninformed does my character need to be already? False conflict. False tension. Easy cop-out.
Also YESSSS I despise transitions. I'll write a buttload of content and then get completely, absolutely, 100% deadlocked on how the scenes connect to each other. |
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Post by ScintillaMyntan on May 6, 2021 10:50:33 GMT -6
What's wrong with semicolons? They're so useful. I use them a lot in e-mail and online chat too. Sometimes more than one thought just feel like the same sentence, and as a writer you're too cool to use a comma splice.
My bad habit is, and this is going to sound really childish, trying to get a "HAHA, who comes up with THAT?" reaction out of the reader. As recently as the Rise from Ruin contest, in my head I imagined people going "Ha, who takes 'rise from ruin' and freaking comes up with a fake psychic buying a piano!?" I mean, surely I should be aiming for higher emotions and for readers to enjoy my writing, and I certainly do that too, but the thought of surprising people with an odd idea is just too satisfying. It's a habit from, like, middle school days, when originality and the ability to be 'random' were so highly valued.
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Post by RAVENEYE on May 7, 2021 22:25:37 GMT -6
What's wrong with semicolons? They're so useful. I use them a lot in e-mail and online chat too. Sometimes more than one thought just feel like the same sentence, and as a writer you're too cool to use a comma splice. My bad habit is, and this is going to sound really childish, trying to get a "HAHA, who comes up with THAT?" reaction out of the reader. As recently as the Rise from Ruin contest, in my head I imagined people going "Ha, who takes 'rise from ruin' and freaking comes up with a fake psychic buying a piano!?" I mean, surely I should be aiming for higher emotions and for readers to enjoy my writing, and I certainly do that too, but the thought of surprising people with an odd idea is just too satisfying. It's a habit from, like, middle school days, when originality and the ability to be 'random' were so highly valued. Actually, I think that's a brilliant goal. It's refreshing to read things that aren't encountered elsewhere. Makes the stories quirky like people in real life are quirky, and that's what makes them special and memorable. In fact, I'm rather jealous of authors who come up with seemingly random things and mash them together and make them work so beautifully or powerfully. So, I'd say keep it up.  |
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Jib
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Post by Jib on May 8, 2021 22:12:24 GMT -6
Hmm... I feel like my bad habits are more "meta" ones. I guess it's a process, like always! 1. Not writing enough. I don't make enough time to regularly write or engage with writer-ly things. I'm working to change that, though! 2. Not knowing how to finish. I love writing beginnings! Middles can be okay sometimes too. Endings are hard, though. I recently learned how to created finished things with my visual art, and I think I can start to incorporate those techniques into my writing. 3. Not rewriting and editing enough. Drafting is super hard! I do a lot of editing as I write, but there's a lot that's easy to miss when you're 'producing' your work. It's great to have a few days in between sometimes too, to give yourself some head space and distance from whatever you're writing. But all too often, I find it hard to go back and fix things later. Or, the fixes that I propose would involve rewriting huge chunks of story and then I 'drown' in uncertainty and overwhelm. XD Oh well. It's things like this that I'll get better with over time, I'm sure.  Great hearing other people's perspectives. If I think of more specific examples with regards to my writing (like word use, worldbuilding style, etc), I might chime in again later. |
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Post by RAVENEYE on May 9, 2021 10:40:51 GMT -6
Hmm... I feel like my bad habits are more "meta" ones. I guess it's a process, like always! 1. Not writing enough. I don't make enough time to regularly write or engage with writer-ly things. I'm working to change that, though! 2. Not knowing how to finish. I love writing beginnings! Middles can be okay sometimes too. Endings are hard, though. I recently learned how to created finished things with my visual art, and I think I can start to incorporate those techniques into my writing. 3. Not rewriting and editing enough. Drafting is super hard! I do a lot of editing as I write, but there's a lot that's easy to miss when you're 'producing' your work. It's great to have a few days in between sometimes too, to give yourself some head space and distance from whatever you're writing. But all too often, I find it hard to go back and fix things later. Or, the fixes that I propose would involve rewriting huge chunks of story and then I 'drown' in uncertainty and overwhelm. XD Oh well. It's things like this that I'll get better with over time, I'm sure.  Great hearing other people's perspectives. If I think of more specific examples with regards to my writing (like word use, worldbuilding style, etc), I might chime in again later. Bless you for liking beginnings. I hate writing beginnings. That's where I self-doubt and worry and fret. It feels like a slow torture device. "This opening sentence is so lame!" "Does this hook grab anyone's attention besides my own?" "Wait, where the bleeping hook? A full page in??? Gotta start over." Yeah, that's the hating I do on my openings. Ugh! (Maybe I should add that to my bad habits list?) As far as #3 goes... yeeeeessss... nailed it. Don't be afraid of rewriting huge chunks, though. Your subconscious will have been stewing on the problem, and the longer it stews, it seems like, the stronger the revision, and the fresher the re-visioning of the scene, paragraph, etc. Allow for fresh surprises in the content, too. Tons of magic can still happen while rewriting large sections. And be prepared for the snowball effect. One large revision may necessitate other large rewrites further along. That's as it should be, so just go with it. You can do it! |
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Jib
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Post by Jib on May 9, 2021 10:59:52 GMT -6
I think what gets me in trouble with regards to middles and endings is this: because I like beginnings, I tend to "over promise". I get super excited (and ambitious) about all of the things that my writing could potentially include. It makes for wonderful hooks and concepts... but then, because I'm a newbie writer still, it's hard to properly follow through. It involves solving lots of little puzzles along the way, lots of research, and lots of hard work and dedication... and for awhile, I just didn't understand how I could make that happen.
I think with time I'll better learn to either make my promises more appropriate... OR, perhaps more excitingly, how to actually follow through with what I'm promising.
Hmm... I feel like my bad habits are more "meta" ones. I guess it's a process, like always! 1. Not writing enough. I don't make enough time to regularly write or engage with writer-ly things. I'm working to change that, though! 2. Not knowing how to finish. I love writing beginnings! Middles can be okay sometimes too. Endings are hard, though. I recently learned how to created finished things with my visual art, and I think I can start to incorporate those techniques into my writing. 3. Not rewriting and editing enough. Drafting is super hard! I do a lot of editing as I write, but there's a lot that's easy to miss when you're 'producing' your work. It's great to have a few days in between sometimes too, to give yourself some head space and distance from whatever you're writing. But all too often, I find it hard to go back and fix things later. Or, the fixes that I propose would involve rewriting huge chunks of story and then I 'drown' in uncertainty and overwhelm. XD Oh well. It's things like this that I'll get better with over time, I'm sure. Great hearing other people's perspectives. If I think of more specific examples with regards to my writing (like word use, worldbuilding style, etc), I might chime in again later. Bless you for liking beginnings. I hate writing beginnings. That's where I self-doubt and worry and fret. It feels like a slow torture device. "This opening sentence is so lame!" "Does this hook grab anyone's attention besides my own?" "Wait, where the bleeping hook? A full page in??? Gotta start over." Yeah, that's the hating I do on my openings. Ugh! (Maybe I should add that to my bad habits list?) As far as #3 goes... yeeeeessss... nailed it. Don't be afraid of rewriting huge chunks, though. Your subconscious will have been stewing on the problem, and the longer it stews, it seems like, the stronger the revision, and the fresher the re-visioning of the scene, paragraph, etc. Allow for fresh surprises in the content, too. Tons of magic can still happen while rewriting large sections. And be prepared for the snowball effect. One large revision may necessitate other large rewrites further along. That's as it should be, so just go with it. You can do it! |
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Post by RAVENEYE on May 10, 2021 8:59:49 GMT -6
I think what gets me in trouble with regards to middles and endings is this: because I like beginnings, I tend to "over promise". I get super excited (and ambitious) about all of the things that my writing could potentially include. It makes for wonderful hooks and concepts... but then, because I'm a newbie writer still, it's hard to properly follow through. It involves solving lots of little puzzles along the way, lots of research, and lots of hard work and dedication... and for awhile, I just didn't understand how I could make that happen.
I think with time I'll better learn to either make my promises more appropriate... OR, perhaps more excitingly, how to actually follow through with what I'm promising.
Bless you for liking beginnings. I hate writing beginnings. That's where I self-doubt and worry and fret. It feels like a slow torture device. "This opening sentence is so lame!" "Does this hook grab anyone's attention besides my own?" "Wait, where the bleeping hook? A full page in??? Gotta start over." Yeah, that's the hating I do on my openings. Ugh! (Maybe I should add that to my bad habits list?) As far as #3 goes... yeeeeessss... nailed it. Don't be afraid of rewriting huge chunks, though. Your subconscious will have been stewing on the problem, and the longer it stews, it seems like, the stronger the revision, and the fresher the re-visioning of the scene, paragraph, etc. Allow for fresh surprises in the content, too. Tons of magic can still happen while rewriting large sections. And be prepared for the snowball effect. One large revision may necessitate other large rewrites further along. That's as it should be, so just go with it. You can do it! Oh, right! I can see how that would feel overwhelming. I feel like my issue is the opposite: how to bring the promises in sooner (so the story isn't boring as hell) without hammering the reader with obvious promises. Also, outlining might help spread things out and keep you on track with reveals and timing. I'm guessing you've tried that though. Maybe a mental note to stick to one or two goals per chapter? |
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Post by Alatariel on May 10, 2021 11:36:20 GMT -6
Oh, I love beginnings. That fresh new story smell. I hate middles. I have shiny-new-project syndrome. I want that rush again, then one I feel when I write a smashing first sentence. Endings are brutally hard for me. A lot of the time I don't know what the ending will look like until I get there. I plan to a certain extent, like I want my character here having finished this, but that's about it. The rest is a total mystery.
I have some meta bad habits, too. Like getting down on myself and having the negative thoughts take over. "Why would anyone want to read this?" or "My story will never matter" or "I'm just wasting my time because I'll never be published or if I am, I won't be a bestseller because my story is mediocre."
AHHHH I hate those voices. I've gotten better at not listening to them, but some days are harder than others.
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Jib
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Posts: 64
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Post by Jib on May 10, 2021 12:03:26 GMT -6
I think what gets me in trouble with regards to middles and endings is this: because I like beginnings, I tend to "over promise". I get super excited (and ambitious) about all of the things that my writing could potentially include. It makes for wonderful hooks and concepts... but then, because I'm a newbie writer still, it's hard to properly follow through. It involves solving lots of little puzzles along the way, lots of research, and lots of hard work and dedication... and for awhile, I just didn't understand how I could make that happen.
I think with time I'll better learn to either make my promises more appropriate... OR, perhaps more excitingly, how to actually follow through with what I'm promising.
Oh, right! I can see how that would feel overwhelming. I feel like my issue is the opposite: how to bring the promises in sooner (so the story isn't boring as hell) without hammering the reader with obvious promises. Also, outlining might help spread things out and keep you on track with reveals and timing. I'm guessing you've tried that though. Maybe a mental note to stick to one or two goals per chapter? Hmm... that's a good point, too. Yes, I've tried doing outlining and stuff. I get confused and lost sometimes when sorting through stuff, though, and I also have a lot of trouble deciding between options. Like oh, my characters could do this, but they could also do this entirely different thing too. XD Or here are two equally viable options for how to resolve this issue... now, which do I pick? I don't know!! As for promises, hmm... for me I look at it as sort of a preview of what's to come. Beginnings set the tone for what's coming next in a story. They let the reader know what to expect from the piece, what the tone & humor is like, what sorts of themes might be talked about. Another related problem is that I love asking questions in my writing, often ones that I as the writer don't know the answer to yet either. Who was that mysterious woman in the red dress that we saw from the window? What is the nature of the woodland magic that the sprites have been interested in, and why does it seem like something is going wrong with it? Do parallel dimensions exist and what if you could build a machine to go visit them?! I hear your frustration, though. There's so much pressure nowadays to "hook" the reader. Like geez, not every beginning has to end on a cliffhanger. Instead, what I find fun is sort of hinting at some of the nature of the main drama (like a blurry snapshot) and getting folks interested in your characters. And then you can slowly introduce the bigger book-wide problems once people are invested in the characters. Either way, what I think I'm trying to say is just that... beginnings can be a sort of microcosm of your story. IDK, I guess I just find them fun. They're a lot more fun when you can back it up with good writing! |
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Jib
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Posts: 64
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Post by Jib on May 10, 2021 12:05:18 GMT -6
Oh, I love beginnings. That fresh new story smell. I hate middles. I have shiny-new-project syndrome. I want that rush again, then one I feel when I write a smashing first sentence. Endings are brutally hard for me. A lot of the time I don't know what the ending will look like until I get there. I plan to a certain extent, like I want my character here having finished this, but that's about it. The rest is a total mystery. I have some meta bad habits, too. Like getting down on myself and having the negative thoughts take over. "Why would anyone want to read this?" or "My story will never matter" or "I'm just wasting my time because I'll never be published or if I am, I won't be a bestseller because my story is mediocre." AHHHH I hate those voices. I've gotten better at not listening to them, but some days are harder than others. Ooof. I feel this one, too. It was one of the main reasons I quit making art for awhile. It was this constant stream of negativity. Therapy definitely helped me out, though. If nothing else, it might mean you're better able to put that critical voice in a box on the shelf for awhile. Also yeah, just getting more experience... if you're able to push through, you can often see that the voices were wrong and not telling you the truth. |
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Post by Alatariel on May 10, 2021 17:51:02 GMT -6
Oh, I love beginnings. That fresh new story smell. I hate middles. I have shiny-new-project syndrome. I want that rush again, then one I feel when I write a smashing first sentence. Endings are brutally hard for me. A lot of the time I don't know what the ending will look like until I get there. I plan to a certain extent, like I want my character here having finished this, but that's about it. The rest is a total mystery. I have some meta bad habits, too. Like getting down on myself and having the negative thoughts take over. "Why would anyone want to read this?" or "My story will never matter" or "I'm just wasting my time because I'll never be published or if I am, I won't be a bestseller because my story is mediocre." AHHHH I hate those voices. I've gotten better at not listening to them, but some days are harder than others. Ooof. I feel this one, too. It was one of the main reasons I quit making art for awhile. It was this constant stream of negativity. Therapy definitely helped me out, though. If nothing else, it might mean you're better able to put that critical voice in a box on the shelf for awhile. Also yeah, just getting more experience... if you're able to push through, you can often see that the voices were wrong and not telling you the truth. I like to say that if the negative voices are trying so hard to keep me down then I must be extra awesome. It must mean that whatever I create is going to be spectacular or else those negative thoughts wouldn't be working so hard to stop me. I say the same thing to Nova when she gets in a negative spiral. No one is immune, it seems, not even 7 year olds. |
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I've had a few people now point out that I litter them across the page like pigeon droppings in a local park. I never notice it until someone points it out and then my brain clocks it as weird and unruly. 
I might have been one of the people to point out the semi-colons. It's such a pet peeve of mine BUT sometimes they are allowed and even appropriate. But I swear, I twitch every time I see one. I used one recently in my own work and almost died of a heart attack.
I might have been one of the people to point out the semi-colons. It's such a pet peeve of mine BUT sometimes they are allowed and even appropriate. But I swear, I twitch every time I see one. I used one recently in my own work and almost died of a heart attack.
Great hearing other people's perspectives. If I think of more specific examples with regards to my writing (like word use, worldbuilding style, etc), I might chime in again later.
Great hearing other people's perspectives. If I think of more specific examples with regards to my writing (like word use, worldbuilding style, etc), I might chime in again later.
