|
|
Post by Alatariel on Apr 11, 2021 17:45:20 GMT -6
This is a question I faced after I got my manuscript back from RAVENEYE (I enlisted her supreme services to help edit my WIP and she provided a ton of insights). Can I do some revisions or do I have to completely rewrite everything? I chose to rewrite, which has proven really hard because my mental health took a dive during 2020. It can be difficult to commit a ton of time and energy to a project when you feel it has already taken a ton of time and energy. However, because I was changing core interactions between characters, adding deeper backstories, more depth I thought revisions would ultimately prove ineffective and a waste of time. There are a few places where I copy/pasted sections but then I would go back, edit them, decide the tone was wrong and rewrite that section anyways. Also, the structure of the story has changed. Because of added backstory and expanding on my world-building, certain events needed to happen differently and some were cut out completely. In the end I believe this will greatly help my story be the best is can be. It's incredibly difficult starting from the beginning again. At times I wonder if this story is worth it (during my darker moments) but I've decided that even if this story isn't my big break it'll serve as a huge learning experience. And isn't that valuable, too? Before my BIG edit with Raveneye, I did revisions to the first draft. I decided the introduction between two major characters was all wrong and rewrote about 4 chapters. Since it was only a portion of my manuscript that needed changes, I consider that a revision. Have you ever started over with an entire story before? What do you consider "revisions"? Is it a rewrite if you need to scrap over 50% of the story or is that just a large revision? I'd love to hear your thoughts and experiences! Also, I still cringe thinking about the people who read my initial draft. I was so proud of it and now I can see that it was incredibly flawed. Luckily, it was mainly family and one close friend who read it and they aren't judgmental people. Most seemed to genuinely enjoy the story. Wait until they see this next draft (that I won't show them until after beta readers)! |
|
|
|
Post by RAVENEYE on Apr 12, 2021 11:11:05 GMT -6
Omigosh, Ala, I'm in the same boat with you, sister! I've told you about the overhaul I'm doing on my Victorian Egypt novel. But this isn't the first project that received this kind of attention. I told you about my Falcons Saga project, didn't I?
So my Falcons Saga was the "novel project" that hogged nearly all my time during LegendFire's 2008-2017 run and prevented me from having the bandwidth to participate in most site activities. I wrote the original draft of the Falcon novels when fresh out of college. I was soooo clueless.
I had NO IDEA that a 300,000 word novel was a no-no.  AND I HAD WRITTEN TWO OF THEM!!! (Initially, the series consisted of only two volumes.)
I had no idea that writing a novel employing overused fantasy tropes was also a no-no.
I had no idea that my lighthearted, naive sense of humor throughout the novels wasn't in the least funny or entertaining.
I had no idea what "telling vs showing" was and that both of my Falcon novels were nothing but telling!
I HAD NO IDEA THAT I HAD WRITTEN TWO 300,000 WORD OUTLINES!
Nevertheless, these characters continued to pester and haunt me for the next decade. I "revised" the original, which in effect amounted to trying out a handful of deplorable openings (which all got thrown in the bin) and changing a few words here and there. I thought that's all "editing" was, so I LET PEOPLE READ IT!!! 
One of them was an acquisitions editor of a local publishing company. Of the length, she said, "Find a place in the middle of each "volume" and divide them into two books a piece." I resisted. I pouted. 
Another was my brother-in-law's mother. She's a vastly intelligent woman and a wide reader. And, thank God, she's the sweetest lady on earth. Her feedback was: "You seem to have a good understanding of architecture."
I took that to mean, "This has no literary merit whatsoever."
I shelved the two massive tomes and tried to move on. But nothing else I tried to write grabbed my heart and imagination like my Falcons kids characters. So one day I dragged them off the shelf and started another "revision." For closure. The first novel got a few new scenes, some POV redo's. A tone change (removal of the inept humor). Minor things like that. AND I followed the editor's advice and cut the novel into two.
me -->  <-- acquisitions editor
By the time I finished with the first volume's revision (now two novels), I realized that things had snowballed. Enough had changed that little content of the second volume would work. So what did I do?
I opened a clean new doc file, numbered it Page 1 and started writing from scratch. THAT 300,000 word outline ended up being broken into THREE novels. So in the end, the full series ended up being FIVE novels. Fully developed, the series clocks in at approximately 954,000 words. It took 6 YEARS to complete the project.
Like you say, Alatariel , these novels were not my big break, but the things I learned about writing and revising were priceless.
So to answer the question: what do I consider "revising"? Depends on the needs of the manuscript and the author's maturity to do the work it takes to go that extra mile (or ten).
(Anyone who says "writing is easy" is probably right. But writing well is the one of the most difficult challenges ever.)
|
|
|
|
Post by Alatariel on Apr 12, 2021 12:56:33 GMT -6
Oh yes, I heard some of that journey but I had no idea the extent! It feels so familiar because I went through a similar thing with The Twin Watch. I have about 5 different drafts started, but the one you read was my first finished draft (with some revisions). The first conception of that story was so vastly different from what it's become, almost unrecognizable, and I've wondered so many times if I should trash it and move on. But like you, I cannot get these characters and their story out of my head. I miss them when I do other projects. They deserve to see this completed, even if it's not the best thing in the world.
I think a big differences between mediocre writers and great writers are 1) persistence 2) willingness to learn and take critiques 3) going through the pain of implementing newly learned techniques 4) more persistence.
We don't know when to give up, essentially. Writing is in our soul. We just have to do it.
Revisions and rewrites are a necessary part of growth as a writer.
|
|
|
|
Post by RAVENEYE on Apr 13, 2021 11:03:05 GMT -6
I think a big differences between mediocre writers and great writers are 1) persistence 2) willingness to learn and take critiques 3) going through the pain of implementing newly learned techniques 4) more persistence. We don't know when to give up, essentially. Writing is in our soul. We just have to do it. Revisions and rewrites are a necessary part of growth as a writer. Asolutely. 100% |
|
|
|
Post by HDSimplicityy on May 2, 2021 19:13:19 GMT -6
I have rewritten a long short story four times. The idea came to me during my time at Portland State University, in my second (?) fiction writing class. At that school, not overall. I wrote what one classmate called hackeneyed. Pretty much the one word I recall from that critique circle that day.
Given it was my first attempt at fantasy. I didn't get rid of it. I loved everything about it so much I just wanted to redo it until I got it publishable. Weeeellll probably not gonna happen, but I did the writing!
So I remember rewriting it while working at Fred Meyer in the fuel station as a cashier and fuel clerk. Between customers. I remember fixing it over and over and over at home. It was that while I also wrote my Tomb Raider fanfiction, and the seeds for my book concept were being laid. Lydia needed a lot more fleshing out. Her best friend that she lived with, and her mother, needed a lot more backstory to be interesting. At least for a long short piece. I constructed a minimal backstory for the mysterious villaim, for the city they lived in (Lord of the Rings inspired). Really the whole thing is inspired by The Lord of the Rings. Can't help it... I adore those films and like the books.
From there it kept me going and going. I got tired of all the fixing up that I said enough around three and a half? years ago. It is in my writing folder waiting for one day that I do, in fact, return to it. But I believe the current draft - draft five - is the best one by FAR.
In the case of my novel, I am going to finish the second draft before I do my first round of editing. I expect to rewrite it at least once. Revising it a lot. Doing as much as I can do it before I give it for critique. I am absolutely not nervous about that. In the case of game writing samples, I am on the IGDA SIG Game Writers Discord server. Lots of people to help out and learn from for revisions.
I have started over from scratch. Rewriting is useful for drastic changes. Revising for keeping the essence to build on it. Rewrite first for a skeleton draft, or at least fifty percent of it. Revise the future work.
|
|
Jib
Spark
Posts: 64
Preferred Pronouns: she/her or they/them
|
Post by Jib on May 8, 2021 22:21:15 GMT -6
So, I don't have this perspective yet with regards to writing fiction, but I've definitely had to do this at times with large projects (like my thesis)... and I'm realizing that a few of my writing projects will need to be massively overhauled as well if I ever want to do anything with them. It's HARD. Rewriting can be incredibly time consuming and frustrating. It's like OMG I already did this, why do I have to do it all over again?! Redoing things take a ton of effort and it is not at all intuitive. Sometimes you realize things need to go a completely different direction. Sometimes you realize what you made at first had a good vibe but structurally it needed to be done a different way. Sometimes you gotta do everything over again from scratch in order for it to make sense... I definitely believe that the rewriting and revision process will make your final result all that much better. Trust the process, as they say! I guess all I can say is just ... hang in there! If you need help keeping your sanity, that's what we're here for! We can run around in circles shouting la la la together  |
|
Jib
Spark
Posts: 64
Preferred Pronouns: she/her or they/them
|
Post by Jib on May 8, 2021 22:23:13 GMT -6
Oh... and just a piece of advice that I've heard recently with regards to freelance art. Can totally apply here, too... a lot of creating things is about persistence, as y'all said. But more importantly, remember that it's a marathon and not a sprint. Endurance is key. Have the patience to stick around with it all and keep growing as an writer. I truly believe you'll get there eventually if you have the dedication and don't give up. We're rooting for you all!
|
|
|
|
Post by RAVENEYE on May 9, 2021 10:16:36 GMT -6
So, I don't have this perspective yet with regards to writing fiction, but I've definitely had to do this at times with large projects (like my thesis)... and I'm realizing that a few of my writing projects will need to be massively overhauled as well if I ever want to do anything with them. It's HARD. Rewriting can be incredibly time consuming and frustrating. It's like OMG I already did this, why do I have to do it all over again?! Redoing things take a ton of effort and it is not at all intuitive. Sometimes you realize things need to go a completely different direction. Sometimes you realize what you made at first had a good vibe but structurally it needed to be done a different way. Sometimes you gotta do everything over again from scratch in order for it to make sense... I definitely believe that the rewriting and revision process will make your final result all that much better. Trust the process, as they say! I guess all I can say is just ... hang in there! If you need help keeping your sanity, that's what we're here for! We can run around in circles shouting la la la together  Exactly! Well stated.  LA LA LA!!! Oh... and just a piece of advice that I've heard recently with regards to freelance art. Can totally apply here, too... a lot of creating things is about persistence, as y'all said. But more importantly, remember that it's a marathon and not a sprint. Endurance is key. Have the patience to stick around with it all and keep growing as an writer. I truly believe you'll get there eventually if you have the dedication and don't give up. We're rooting for you all! Thanks, Jib!!! Those rare folks who write a single book and manage to get it noticed, I'm like, "Don't talk to me." |
|
AND I HAD WRITTEN TWO OF THEM!!! (Initially, the series consisted of only two volumes.)
<-- acquisitions editor
LA LA LA!!! 
