The Uncanny Valley and how to avoid and use it.
Dec 28, 2023 6:12:02 GMT -6
Post by saintofm on Dec 28, 2023 6:12:02 GMT -6
I actually have a power point on this but there is an old Exra Creditz episode on it, so I will post the first graph I find on google and that video here. And while this is mostly a topic for visual mediums, it can be used in literature.
So for the too long didn't read crowd on that short video, the gist is animaters and roboticists try to make robots look more human, and in other artforms try to emulate it.
When something is not human but has a handful of human characteristics, we tend to like it as it makes the humanity stand out. But if you add more and say get close but not a 100% close (say as around 90 to 95%) and the reverse happens. The parts of it that are not human become our focus and we get unnerved. Add more human qualities again and we loose that dread as we can't tell the difference between the real thing or the simulacrum to us mentally. But that big dip between the points of liking it is the uncanny valley. Some of the more cited examples of people experiencing this was with the film version of Cats, the Polar Express, and a particularly well used example being Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. Its also why some people find dolls and clowns creepy, and what in the world is with those mannequins from Old Navy?
It has been theorized that humans have this to help keep us safe from individuals that are diseased or a rotting corpse. It can backfire, as people can have this harmless people that are amputees (my dad had a radicle amputation from the hip down, fun times) or heavily tattooed, or even just homeless. Think back before we knew what leprosy was and had colonies of people to be separated from the rest of society because of how people thought it was spread.
So how to incorporate it in to your works?
I think we need to look at the stylization part first. Its why even thoe Mario from Mario Brothers, Toon Link from Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, The Incredibles, the Vikings in How to Train Your Dragon, Elmer Fud and Yosemite Sam, Archi and friends, and a number of anime characters work despite being far from normal human looking: the stylization helps make people more comfortable with them. If we start at the beginning of the graph at the top When we say look at a piece of machinery, unless you are a gear head probably going to go meh. Even if you see that thing day in and day out you might develop a meh. But add personality or a humanoid shape, and we have something. Bender from Futurama, Star Wars' C-3PEO, the IG unit from Mandalorian, the robot in various Lost in Space depictions, Roby the Robot in a number of films but namely The Forbidden Planet. Even ones that are not humanoid at all, like Wheatly from Portal 2, or RT-D2 and Chopper from Star Wars, or even the little robots from Batteries Not Included. They are anything but human, not even organic, so their humanity stands out more. The humanity shines forth.
Even when they have no personality in the same way as the previous ones before, their very look can say so much such as the war machines in any given mecha. Be it a Gundam or an Armored Core, they have their very look and design conveys so much. To use the Original Gundam the namesake machine is very much designed off of a samurai Warrior, with the head V reminiscent of the decor a samurai would put on their helmets; the top ridge on its head reminisent of a samurai's topknot , even the faceplate reminiscent of a samurai's facemask. Without being told that, I and potentially others that liked the franchise could see it almost Knight like in form. Or its main foe taking the foe usually in the form of the Zaku and those that come after? Big, angry, looking things that have a singular menacing eye, armed with weapons that are both primitive and modern at the same time. A literal ogre that represents the totalitarian wars of the past.
Organics work well. Going from different media, andromorphic animals (giving animals and other nonhuman creatures human like traits and vice versa) is not just a robot thing. Bluey, The Land Before Time, various Loony Toons, 101 Dalmatians, Bambie, The Fox and the Hound, Charlet's Web, Homeward Bound, most animal sidekicks of the Disney Princesses, All Dogs Go to Heaven, The Lion King, The Jungle Book, and the list goes on.
This can also relate to other animals as well such as how dragons in How to Train your Dragon are almost big house cats in personality.
This is probably why Teiflings, and by some extention Half orc, Half Elves, and most other none human races in your average role laying game are popular options.
We could also try gong for in what they are compared to with their traits (literal or otherwise). Even if you don't know anything about Asian myths about foxes, you know Ari of Leauge of Legends has fox traits with her ears, whiskers, and tails. In English describing some one as Foxy means they are very attractive. Foxes are considered crafty and cunning, so those elements can also be added to her. Same with Naruto. His whisker like markings on his cheeks, to his transformation into a chick to surprise people, and his overall prankster persona in the first season or so fits him to a tee. And while he isn't the smartest people in the series (Shikamaru has that hands down), he is quick witted in a few area of expertise and can think on his feet (his Thousand Years of Death on Gara with the Explosive Kuni anyone?)
The uncanny valley can also work in other areas, particularly if you are trying to unnerve someone on purpose. Darth Vader has a black silloete of a form, and his face mask is a skull, making him rather ghoulish looking. Even before we see Orochimaru's true form in Naruto, the way he wear's other people's skins, manipulates his neck, take Sauske's Godzilla breath and shrug it off was meant to get on one's ick feelings. The same with his later forms and jutsues.
Or som of the more otherworldly horrors such as the Thing from the book and films The Thing, the Lovecraftian horrors of HP Lovecraft, or the various things of Chaos that get summoned up as Chaos Spawn in various Warhammer universes (The Old World, Age of Sigmar, and 40K). The bursting wounds and exposed innards proudly displayed on Warhammers followers of the Plauge God Nurgle. The Inhuman mind that is the Tyranid Hive Mind, and how the countless creatures that make up the hive fleets are just a collection of its whole; that a swarm of tyrranid warrior breeds of lifeforms are not so much millions on lifeforms racing headlong to devour you and your world, but the tip of this entity's finger in scale.
Need to get some sleep before I crash on my laptop, but what are your thoughts on how to make it work? And maybe later on I can think of ways to avoid accidentally doing this, but for now what are some of your own?
So for the too long didn't read crowd on that short video, the gist is animaters and roboticists try to make robots look more human, and in other artforms try to emulate it.
When something is not human but has a handful of human characteristics, we tend to like it as it makes the humanity stand out. But if you add more and say get close but not a 100% close (say as around 90 to 95%) and the reverse happens. The parts of it that are not human become our focus and we get unnerved. Add more human qualities again and we loose that dread as we can't tell the difference between the real thing or the simulacrum to us mentally. But that big dip between the points of liking it is the uncanny valley. Some of the more cited examples of people experiencing this was with the film version of Cats, the Polar Express, and a particularly well used example being Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within. Its also why some people find dolls and clowns creepy, and what in the world is with those mannequins from Old Navy?
It has been theorized that humans have this to help keep us safe from individuals that are diseased or a rotting corpse. It can backfire, as people can have this harmless people that are amputees (my dad had a radicle amputation from the hip down, fun times) or heavily tattooed, or even just homeless. Think back before we knew what leprosy was and had colonies of people to be separated from the rest of society because of how people thought it was spread.
So how to incorporate it in to your works?
I think we need to look at the stylization part first. Its why even thoe Mario from Mario Brothers, Toon Link from Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker, The Incredibles, the Vikings in How to Train Your Dragon, Elmer Fud and Yosemite Sam, Archi and friends, and a number of anime characters work despite being far from normal human looking: the stylization helps make people more comfortable with them. If we start at the beginning of the graph at the top When we say look at a piece of machinery, unless you are a gear head probably going to go meh. Even if you see that thing day in and day out you might develop a meh. But add personality or a humanoid shape, and we have something. Bender from Futurama, Star Wars' C-3PEO, the IG unit from Mandalorian, the robot in various Lost in Space depictions, Roby the Robot in a number of films but namely The Forbidden Planet. Even ones that are not humanoid at all, like Wheatly from Portal 2, or RT-D2 and Chopper from Star Wars, or even the little robots from Batteries Not Included. They are anything but human, not even organic, so their humanity stands out more. The humanity shines forth.
Even when they have no personality in the same way as the previous ones before, their very look can say so much such as the war machines in any given mecha. Be it a Gundam or an Armored Core, they have their very look and design conveys so much. To use the Original Gundam the namesake machine is very much designed off of a samurai Warrior, with the head V reminiscent of the decor a samurai would put on their helmets; the top ridge on its head reminisent of a samurai's topknot , even the faceplate reminiscent of a samurai's facemask. Without being told that, I and potentially others that liked the franchise could see it almost Knight like in form. Or its main foe taking the foe usually in the form of the Zaku and those that come after? Big, angry, looking things that have a singular menacing eye, armed with weapons that are both primitive and modern at the same time. A literal ogre that represents the totalitarian wars of the past.
Organics work well. Going from different media, andromorphic animals (giving animals and other nonhuman creatures human like traits and vice versa) is not just a robot thing. Bluey, The Land Before Time, various Loony Toons, 101 Dalmatians, Bambie, The Fox and the Hound, Charlet's Web, Homeward Bound, most animal sidekicks of the Disney Princesses, All Dogs Go to Heaven, The Lion King, The Jungle Book, and the list goes on.
This can also relate to other animals as well such as how dragons in How to Train your Dragon are almost big house cats in personality.
This is probably why Teiflings, and by some extention Half orc, Half Elves, and most other none human races in your average role laying game are popular options.
We could also try gong for in what they are compared to with their traits (literal or otherwise). Even if you don't know anything about Asian myths about foxes, you know Ari of Leauge of Legends has fox traits with her ears, whiskers, and tails. In English describing some one as Foxy means they are very attractive. Foxes are considered crafty and cunning, so those elements can also be added to her. Same with Naruto. His whisker like markings on his cheeks, to his transformation into a chick to surprise people, and his overall prankster persona in the first season or so fits him to a tee. And while he isn't the smartest people in the series (Shikamaru has that hands down), he is quick witted in a few area of expertise and can think on his feet (his Thousand Years of Death on Gara with the Explosive Kuni anyone?)
The uncanny valley can also work in other areas, particularly if you are trying to unnerve someone on purpose. Darth Vader has a black silloete of a form, and his face mask is a skull, making him rather ghoulish looking. Even before we see Orochimaru's true form in Naruto, the way he wear's other people's skins, manipulates his neck, take Sauske's Godzilla breath and shrug it off was meant to get on one's ick feelings. The same with his later forms and jutsues.
Or som of the more otherworldly horrors such as the Thing from the book and films The Thing, the Lovecraftian horrors of HP Lovecraft, or the various things of Chaos that get summoned up as Chaos Spawn in various Warhammer universes (The Old World, Age of Sigmar, and 40K). The bursting wounds and exposed innards proudly displayed on Warhammers followers of the Plauge God Nurgle. The Inhuman mind that is the Tyranid Hive Mind, and how the countless creatures that make up the hive fleets are just a collection of its whole; that a swarm of tyrranid warrior breeds of lifeforms are not so much millions on lifeforms racing headlong to devour you and your world, but the tip of this entity's finger in scale.
Need to get some sleep before I crash on my laptop, but what are your thoughts on how to make it work? And maybe later on I can think of ways to avoid accidentally doing this, but for now what are some of your own?
You add them to your profile as you do them around the forum.
