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Post by Alatariel on Dec 20, 2022 18:22:01 GMT -6
So last year I decided to try and write in a completely new genre for me. I'd never even read a book of this genre but listened to a writing podcast with three very successful authors of this genre. They said this is BY FAR the #1 best selling genre and readers are voracious, eager, and desperate for quality books. They devour novels quickly and are very loyal to their favorite authors. They are also far more likely to grab a book from a new author than readers of other genres.
The genre is romance.
I had a lot of prejudice against the genre but had never once read a romance novel. So I decided to challenge myself and read as many romance novels with all the popular tropes as possible. Then I would try to write one.
Man did that change things.
I've read about 300 romance novels in the past year. They are fast reads. I have kindle unlimited so I can snag one for free, devour it within 24 hours, and move on easily to the next one. They are so different from what I expected and I found myself a bit addicted. I loved the predictability and the warm feeling it left in my chest with every Happily Ever After. It's not romance without a happily ever after.
But it's ingrained in me an appreciation for reading your genre. Know your genre. Read Read Read. I've learned what I love, what I don't enjoy, and what I want more of...
I've read bestselling titles that left me feeling bored. Bestselling titles that left me feeling elated. Bestselling titles that left me feeling hollow. I've dissected the authors I love and the authors I disliked. I learned about pacing, beats, the beauty of embracing favorite tropes, and how to write complex sympathetic characters. Never before have I been able to pinpoint WHY I love certain books/authors/writing styles, but I can identify those factors so precisely now. AND IT'S MADE ME MORE CONFIDENT. I feel like I can write a good novel, a great one, after reading some that are massive successes and thinking "I can do this better".
I think everyone should grab a genre they've never read before, maybe done they prejudged, and try it. You might be surprised what you discover about yourself.
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Post by havekrillwhaletravel on Dec 22, 2022 17:56:36 GMT -6
I agree with you, I don’t think there’s such a thing as originality in a vacuum. We write and create based on what we read, so it only makes sense to read A LOT. We live in a glut of media, so it’s especially easy - now more than ever - to wall yourself in and consume only a particular genre. But by only consuming one genre, you’re limiting the ideas you’re exposed to. And I think you can kinda tell when an author or artist only ever engages with the genre they’re making. I’m guilty of this myself, and over the past couple of years, I’ve been trying to dip into sci-fi and fantasy. It’s been a strange ride - there’s a ton of stuff that I think is okay, a ton of stuff that I think is absolutely horrible (Heinlein  ) but also plenty of works that I fell in love with. So I’m with you, jump into a genre you don’t often read. |
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Post by Alatariel on Dec 22, 2022 21:52:15 GMT -6
I agree with you, I don’t think there’s such a thing as originality in a vacuum. We write and create based on what we read, so it only makes sense to read A LOT. We live in a glut of media, so it’s especially easy - now more than ever - to wall yourself in and consume only a particular genre. But by only consuming one genre, you’re limiting the ideas you’re exposed to. And I think you can kinda tell when an author or artist only ever engages with the genre they’re making. I’m guilty of this myself, and over the past couple of years, I’ve been trying to dip into sci-fi and fantasy. It’s been a strange ride - there’s a ton of stuff that I think is okay, a ton of stuff that I think is absolutely horrible (Heinlein ) but also plenty of works that I fell in love with. So I’m with you, jump into a genre you don’t often read. I used to exclusively read fantasy-ish books (all kinds: adult, YA, urban, dystopia, post-apocalyptic) and my writing reflected that. Lots of cliches and not in a good way (yes, there are good cliches). I didn't think I was capable of writing anything else. I didn't know how people could write literary fiction without any magic or fantastical element. Then I read books without magic or fantastical elements and it became much easier to imagine writing like that. It's so important to read a wide variety of genres but it's also really important to read the genre you want to write in, to know the good from the bad. I definitely agree with you, too. |
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Post by RAVENEYE on Dec 24, 2022 14:53:46 GMT -6
I think this is why I'm frustrated. I have a genre crisis. My WIP is set in the Victorian era, right? "Victorianist" and "Victorianism" are actual terms for a REASON. It's a very popular time for history buffs and readers alike. But when I sought out books that take place in this era, all I got was Victorian romance. My WIP is not a romance. I was looking for Victorian historical, Victorian literary, but next to nada has come up in my searches. The ones that do come up are usually set during the American Civil War. Wrong country, wrong continent, wrong culture.
So I've turned to reading books written in the Victorian era. Dickens, Bronte, Gaskell, etc. Plus, historicals about times long before, like Hilary Mantel's Tudor novels.
This freaks me out, honestly. Am I wasting my time writing this thing if there are no comps? Does this mean that publishers aren't accepting Victorian stories if they aren't romance? Or will my book be unique enough in setting/timeline to stand out?
If I were to write a query letter right now, I'd have to go with "If Jane Eyre had visited Egypt, her story might have gone like this..." Jane Eyre is my closest comp!!! WTF???
Does anyone happen to know of Victorian era novels that are NOT romances? If so, please pass them along.
POINT IS, yes, the importance of reading your genre is HUGE. But what if your genre can't be found???
EDIT: I found a list of "Best 1800s Historical Fiction" on Goodreads. Easily 2/3 are set during the Civil War. Ugh. But I did find a few relevant titles that I will order with Christmas gift money. So that's a starting point. Yay!
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Post by havekrillwhaletravel on Dec 24, 2022 17:49:16 GMT -6
I think this is why I'm frustrated. I have a genre crisis. My WIP is set in the Victorian era, right? "Victorianist" and "Victorianism" are actual terms for a REASON. It's a very popular time for history buffs and readers alike. But when I sought out books that take place in this era, all I got was Victorian romance. My WIP is not a romance. I was looking for Victorian historical, Victorian literary, but next to nada has come up in my searches. The ones that do come up are usually set during the American Civil War. Wrong country, wrong continent, wrong culture. So I've turned to reading books written in the Victorian era. Dickens, Bronte, Gaskell, etc. Plus, historicals about times long before, like Hilary Mantel's Tudor novels. This freaks me out, honestly. Am I wasting my time writing this thing if there are no comps? Does this mean that publishers aren't accepting Victorian stories if they aren't romance? Or will my book be unique enough in setting/timeline to stand out? If I were to write a query letter right now, I'd have to go with "If Jane Eyre had visited Egypt, her story might have gone like this..." Jane Eyre is my closest comp!!! WTF??? Does anyone happen to know of Victorian era novels that are NOT romances? If so, please pass them along. POINT IS, yes, the importance of reading your genre is HUGE. But what if your genre can't be found??? EDIT: I found a list of "Best 1800s Historical Fiction" on Goodreads. Easily 2/3 are set during the Civil War. Ugh. But I did find a few relevant titles that I will order with Christmas gift money. So that's a starting point. Yay! Can't speak to its historical accuracy, but Sarah Waters' Fingersmith is set in Victorian England. There's romance, but I wouldn't call it a romance novel. Also, this is probably not historically accurate but Bruce Sterling's & William Gibson's The Difference Engine is a steampunk novel set in that same time period. I haven't read these books so I have no idea how good they are, but Michel Faber's The Crimson Petal and the White and John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman are both set in Victorian England.
I don't know how publishers will react, but my layperson's take is that you probably won't have a problem. There's a ton of historical fiction written in "out-of-the-way" time periods and most people are somewhat familiar with the Victorian era, so I doubt a book set in that era will be a hard sell for publishers or readers. And for what it's worth, I think your writing's fantastic and that'll overcome any potential resistance publishers/readers might initially have.
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Post by RAVENEYE on Dec 28, 2022 10:23:14 GMT -6
I think this is why I'm frustrated. I have a genre crisis. My WIP is set in the Victorian era, right? "Victorianist" and "Victorianism" are actual terms for a REASON. It's a very popular time for history buffs and readers alike. But when I sought out books that take place in this era, all I got was Victorian romance. My WIP is not a romance. I was looking for Victorian historical, Victorian literary, but next to nada has come up in my searches. The ones that do come up are usually set during the American Civil War. Wrong country, wrong continent, wrong culture. So I've turned to reading books written in the Victorian era. Dickens, Bronte, Gaskell, etc. Plus, historicals about times long before, like Hilary Mantel's Tudor novels. This freaks me out, honestly. Am I wasting my time writing this thing if there are no comps? Does this mean that publishers aren't accepting Victorian stories if they aren't romance? Or will my book be unique enough in setting/timeline to stand out? If I were to write a query letter right now, I'd have to go with "If Jane Eyre had visited Egypt, her story might have gone like this..." Jane Eyre is my closest comp!!! WTF??? Does anyone happen to know of Victorian era novels that are NOT romances? If so, please pass them along. POINT IS, yes, the importance of reading your genre is HUGE. But what if your genre can't be found??? EDIT: I found a list of "Best 1800s Historical Fiction" on Goodreads. Easily 2/3 are set during the Civil War. Ugh. But I did find a few relevant titles that I will order with Christmas gift money. So that's a starting point. Yay! Can't speak to its historical accuracy, but Sarah Waters' Fingersmith is set in Victorian England. There's romance, but I wouldn't call it a romance novel. Also, this is probably not historically accurate but Bruce Sterling's & William Gibson's The Difference Engine is a steampunk novel set in that same time period. I haven't read these books so I have no idea how good they are, but Michel Faber's The Crimson Petal and the White and John Fowles' The French Lieutenant's Woman are both set in Victorian England.
I don't know how publishers will react, but my layperson's take is that you probably won't have a problem. There's a ton of historical fiction written in "out-of-the-way" time periods and most people are somewhat familiar with the Victorian era, so I doubt a book set in that era will be a hard sell for publishers or readers. And for what it's worth, I think your writing's fantastic and that'll overcome any potential resistance publishers/readers might initially have.
Thanks for that, Whale. I can't express how much that means to me. And Fingersmith and The French Lieutenant's Woman were both on that Goodreads list. Yay! Now that Christmas cash is in hand, t's time to load up on books. Darn.  I'm really hoping that reading a ton of these while I'm finishing this draft and editing the next one will give me some direction on what I'm doing right and what I'm doing wrong. Only thing I know right now is my WIP is tooooooo loooooooong. So, soon, I hope, I'll be able to join this thread with a different attitude and new advice.  |
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Post by RAVENEYE on Jan 10, 2023 13:11:20 GMT -6
Okay, the books are IN! This conversation really convicted me to find more contemporary books in the genre I'm writing. As I said above, I used the Christmas cash from my in-laws to bolster my reading. The last book finally arrived, and here they are!  I think this stack will keep me busy for the rest of the year. Maybe longer. |
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Post by Alatariel on Jan 10, 2023 13:57:56 GMT -6
Very nice book haul! I can be SO hard finding comps for a book that is genre-bending or unique. I can definitely relate!! I have a speculative fiction WIP that just...doesn't fit into a genre and I have no comps. So I'm focusing on my romance novel. But seriously, this can be so challenging and I'm excited to hear what you think of these books! I have a friend who loves historical fiction and she gets so frustrated with the lack of time periods represented within the genre. SO MANY WW2 BOOKS. So I think you'll have LOTS of eager readers.
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Post by havekrillwhaletravel on Jan 17, 2023 5:26:37 GMT -6
Okay, the books are IN! This conversation really convicted me to find more contemporary books in the genre I'm writing. As I said above, I used the Christmas cash from my in-laws to bolster my reading. The last book finally arrived, and here they are! I think this stack will keep me busy for the rest of the year. Maybe longer. Oooh, I'm jealous. That looks like an awesome stack of books. |
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Post by saintofm on Jan 19, 2023 12:00:51 GMT -6
Its a double edge sword, definitely. The more you read the better you write as you get to improve your craft, see what works, what doesn't, and what has been overdone. At the same time you definitely get overwhelmed with mediocre stuff. Part of this is comes from the territory of digging into your favorite genres or mediums this much, which is why Agents and reviewers tend to be jaded by alot of material everyone else is excited about. Part of this is a market gets flooded when something nice and shiny and new comes along. Everyone copies and past, and well you get a combination of lower quality stuff shoveled out to market and spectacle fatigue where it doesn't hit the feels like it used to.
Spectacle or Badass Fatigue (why do these words have to be so hard to spell, that is already my downfall in life as is) is you consume so much media of this or that kind enough that you get bored with it. Its like your favorite food. Let's say you like hamburgers or Burritos. Every now and then and its the food of the gods. Every day or close to it and its meh. You can quantify the quality here and there (Burger King is Better than McDonalds, 5 Guys is better than that, Red Robbin is better than that, and so on). Yu have to get bigger, better, with little time for the audience to cool down from the last one.
Or you get a bunch of subpar stuff. Author Theodore Sturgeon came up with Sturgeon's law after a reported kept annoying him with the question "Why is 90% of Science Fiction Crap" with "90% of everything is crap!" the genre uses the same rules and standards as other genres, just add robots or put in space, so it aside from its own specific quirks has the same problems as other genres.
If its the former, taking it in new directions and having better writing can help elevate the spectacle. If its the latter, it can be until the genre has been killed off that the higher ups realize they have a problem. We seen this with the Western, The Musical, The Epic, at least 3 times with Superhero movies, Hair Metal, Disco, Gangsta Rap, Crunk, Nu Metal, Boy Bands/Idal Groups, and so on.
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Post by Alatariel on Jan 19, 2023 12:18:46 GMT -6
Its a double edge sword, definitely. The more you read the better you write as you get to improve your craft, see what works, what doesn't, and what has been overdone. At the same time you definitely get overwhelmed with mediocre stuff. Part of this is comes from the territory of digging into your favorite genres or mediums this much, which is why Agents and reviewers tend to be jaded by alot of material everyone else is excited about. Part of this is a market gets flooded when something nice and shiny and new comes along. Everyone copies and past, and well you get a combination of lower quality stuff shoveled out to market and spectacle fatigue where it doesn't hit the feels like it used to. Spectacle or Badass Fatigue (why do these words have to be so hard to spell, that is already my downfall in life as is) is you consume so much media of this or that kind enough that you get bored with it. Its like your favorite food. Let's say you like hamburgers or Burritos. Every now and then and its the food of the gods. Every day or close to it and its meh. You can quantify the quality here and there (Burger King is Better than McDonalds, 5 Guys is better than that, Red Robbin is better than that, and so on). Yu have to get bigger, better, with little time for the audience to cool down from the last one. Or you get a bunch of subpar stuff. Author Theodore Sturgeon came up with Sturgeon's law after a reported kept annoying him with the question "Why is 90% of Science Fiction Crap" with "90% of everything is crap!" the genre uses the same rules and standards as other genres, just add robots or put in space, so it aside from its own specific quirks has the same problems as other genres. If its the former, taking it in new directions and having better writing can help elevate the spectacle. If its the latter, it can be until the genre has been killed off that the higher ups realize they have a problem. We seen this with the Western, The Musical, The Epic, at least 3 times with Superhero movies, Hair Metal, Disco, Gangsta Rap, Crunk, Nu Metal, Boy Bands/Idal Groups, and so on. This is so true. You definitely have to wade through a lot of detritus to find the treasure. For me, it is encouraging to read super popular books and think "Yea, I can do this better." It's an ego boost, for sure. It's when I read books that are subtle, brilliant, and well-crafted that gets me a bit depressed because how can I ever compare?? Double-edged sword, as you said. I have come to the conclusion that using familiar tropes is a good things. When I fall in love with a book or series, I want something similar as a follow-up. I search for something within that realm and become disappointed when I don't find anything of the same quality. For example, having finished Legendborn and Bloodmarked (waiting for book 3), I'd love to read something with similar vibes. But the only thing I can find are either sub-par copies or things that don't quite hit the mark. But...my point is, it's okay to write things that are similar to other things in the genre. That's why genres and sub-genre's exist. Because people WANT things to have similar vibes, people like familiar tropes, they just also want good writing, decent plots, and unforgettable characters mixed in with those tropes. |
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Post by saintofm on Jan 19, 2023 18:01:13 GMT -6
Its a double edge sword, definitely. The more you read the better you write as you get to improve your craft, see what works, what doesn't, and what has been overdone. At the same time you definitely get overwhelmed with mediocre stuff. Part of this is comes from the territory of digging into your favorite genres or mediums this much, which is why Agents and reviewers tend to be jaded by alot of material everyone else is excited about. Part of this is a market gets flooded when something nice and shiny and new comes along. Everyone copies and past, and well you get a combination of lower quality stuff shoveled out to market and spectacle fatigue where it doesn't hit the feels like it used to. Spectacle or Badass Fatigue (why do these words have to be so hard to spell, that is already my downfall in life as is) is you consume so much media of this or that kind enough that you get bored with it. Its like your favorite food. Let's say you like hamburgers or Burritos. Every now and then and its the food of the gods. Every day or close to it and its meh. You can quantify the quality here and there (Burger King is Better than McDonalds, 5 Guys is better than that, Red Robbin is better than that, and so on). Yu have to get bigger, better, with little time for the audience to cool down from the last one. Or you get a bunch of subpar stuff. Author Theodore Sturgeon came up with Sturgeon's law after a reported kept annoying him with the question "Why is 90% of Science Fiction Crap" with "90% of everything is crap!" the genre uses the same rules and standards as other genres, just add robots or put in space, so it aside from its own specific quirks has the same problems as other genres. If its the former, taking it in new directions and having better writing can help elevate the spectacle. If its the latter, it can be until the genre has been killed off that the higher ups realize they have a problem. We seen this with the Western, The Musical, The Epic, at least 3 times with Superhero movies, Hair Metal, Disco, Gangsta Rap, Crunk, Nu Metal, Boy Bands/Idal Groups, and so on. This is so true. You definitely have to wade through a lot of detritus to find the treasure. For me, it is encouraging to read super popular books and think "Yea, I can do this better." It's an ego boost, for sure. It's when I read books that are subtle, brilliant, and well-crafted that gets me a bit depressed because how can I ever compare?? Double-edged sword, as you said. I have come to the conclusion that using familiar tropes is a good things. When I fall in love with a book or series, I want something similar as a follow-up. I search for something within that realm and become disappointed when I don't find anything of the same quality. For example, having finished Legendborn and Bloodmarked (waiting for book 3), I'd love to read something with similar vibes. But the only thing I can find are either sub-par copies or things that don't quite hit the mark. But...my point is, it's okay to write things that are similar to other things in the genre. That's why genres and sub-genre's exist. Because people WANT things to have similar vibes, people like familiar tropes, they just also want good writing, decent plots, and unforgettable characters mixed in with those tropes. We call that genre. Most of it is just marketing, but there is enough of a difference between stories in one area to another. There can be blending and overlapping, but one has a main focus completely different than another and we all want some comfort food stuff that doesn't make us think hard. Give me some old school Godzilla or a so bad its good anime for that. We want comfort food, and sometimes that comes in the form of low brow takings of that genre. Nothing wrong with that. And sometimes making the best of that is all you need. Look at DOOM 2016 and DOOM Eternal; they made a great single player games, kept to the spirit of the old ones, and brought some life into the shooter games. No reason the same can't be done to ssay a romance novel. |
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) but also plenty of works that I fell in love with. So I’m with you, jump into a genre you don’t often read.
Hey, hey! I'm so excited about our upcoming activity. Should be announced in the next few days. Stay tuned....